Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:53 am Post subject: October Heritage
Last years Dec Heritage auction seemed pretty unique in the quantity of TSR offerings. Now it appears that we might see more and more auctions with good TSR content...
Already, several TSR pieces available for October:
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:22 am Post subject:
This auction has several great "genre" paintings as well. These things are pretty kick-ass lately!!
The gems so far are the Dragon covers.
1) "Dragon Attack" - Caldwell has sold pretty low on Heritage (so far) in comparison to his 3 peers. This could soon change with the sale of "Dragon Attack".
Pro: I think Caldwells best body of work lays in his Dragon covers and this is one of my favorites. Early Dragon covers have a lot of nostalgia appeal. This is a really nice painting Covers with Dragons tend to do much better than covers with other monsters...
Con: I (and maybe you) passed on this one for 8K a couple years ago. Clyde has had many pieces available on his site until just recently which has likely hurt his secondary market value.
My guess: This piece has the most variables of the current TSR paintings listed so far. If it keeps in line with previous Heritage Caldwell sales it could easily go below all of our (people who actually buy this stuff) expectations. Easleys "Magister" piece was maybe the best pure painting listed in the Dec auction and performed well despite going under the Park and Elmore. This one has the same potential I think. This should move Clyde back up in line with L.E. K.P. J.E. 2 of his Heavy Metal covers are also listed. It's unlikely (although possible) that they will detract from bidders on this one.
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:40 am Post subject:
2) Another Dragon cover is the Ned Dameron painting.
Pro: Another nice painting. It's a big piece as well measuring 30.5 x 21.5.
Con: Who is Ned Dameron?
My guess: This is a nice piece and will likley be won by a TSR collector that wants a quality Dragon cover for his/her home regardless of the artist. This could also fall into the hands of the bidding loser of the above mentioned painting...
3) Beauvais Dragon Chessmen cover:
This one just went up recently so take a look at it!!
Elmore gave us Dragonlance... Parkinson gave us "Northwatch" and some other stuff... Beauvais gave us the Chessmen covers.
Pro: These are beloved paintings to a lot of fans. His Dragon covers are selling for a lot of $$$.
Con: His Dragon covers are selling for a lot of $$$.
My guess: This could possibly do the best business of all the TSR pieces that get listed. Many people (including myself) want to get a Beauvais and the recent sales of his works has been in the too high territory. I think the trend will continue. This piece could also get some interest beyond TSR specific collectors...
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:16 am Post subject:
4) Dragon Magazine: Elmore- Good Catch!
I think this is the weakest of the Dragon covers offered. It's an Elmore Dragon cover though and that alone has some considerable value to many people.
Pro/Con is irrelevant with Larry... His recent Bloodstone piece fell far short of what I expected compared to the Dragonlance piece that sold last year. Of all the major TSR artists, I think that Elmore has the most nostalgia going for his paintings. This is reflected in the sales of his TSR work Vs his other work.
My guess: something stupid high or something amazingly low It's feast or famine with Larry Elmore. The same can be said about his paintings...
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5) "Axe me another one"... or... "This auctions Parkinson"
Pro: It's a Parkinson.
Con: It's an oddball painting. This is from the same period when he started doing really amazing work but alas, this isn't one of those...
My guess: Every auction from now on will have at least one marginal Parkinson that will sell for a good amount of $$$. I wonder what "Northwatch" or something of that caliber will do if it ever hits Heritage??
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6) Brom- Amber Enchantress:
Brom had 2 pieces in the recent Heritage and they both sold pretty low. To be fair, that entire auction seemed deflated compared to last Decembers. Brom maybe facing the same trouble as Caldwell in that his work has been readily available on the secondary market for the past several years. That may be affecting his secondary values but it's also his greatest upside in that, of all the surviving TSR artists, Brom is still highly successful as a working artist today.
Pro: This is a Dark Sun and Brom is Dark Sun. This is much more (non latex wearing) female friendly than most of his other pieces and can be better explained to a wife when it arrives in the mail... It's a big painting
Con: The multi/split covers are cool (I own some) but they also aren't as cohesive as a single painting. These aren't wrap-around images so much as multiple paintings in one canvas. Not Broms best and facing an unknown long term secondary market value.
My guess: Brom has been under selling recently. Is this better than the Dragon piece that was available in the last Heritage? The market for Brom bleeds over into "genre" art collectors more-so than any of the other major TSR guys. I would take a flyer on this one as well as the Dameron and hope to win either on the cheap.
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:56 am Post subject:
Note: My very last sentence on the previous post maybe a moot point. I would likely bet that these will all have a reserve on them. That leads to many more variables though...
Joined: 13 Nov 2007 Last Visit: 01 Mar 2019 Posts: 224 Location: Seattle, WA USA
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject:
Rifter wrote:
4) Dragon Magazine: Elmore- Good Catch!
I think this is the weakest of the Dragon covers offered. It's an Elmore Dragon cover though and that alone has some considerable value to many people.
I am not sure how much it will make a difference but this is actually an interior full page picture from the 1989 2nd Ed. Player's Handbook. Though I suppose it could have also been used elsewhere. This has always been one of my favorites of Elmore's work as it depicts a rare post-encounter scenario.
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:23 pm Post subject:
Rifter wrote:
This auction has several great "genre" paintings as well. These things are pretty kick-ass lately!!
The gems so far are the Dragon covers.
1) "Dragon Attack" - Caldwell has sold pretty low on Heritage (so far) in comparison to his 3 peers. This could soon change with the sale of "Dragon Attack".
Pro: I think Caldwells best body of work lays in his Dragon covers and this is one of my favorites. Early Dragon covers have a lot of nostalgia appeal. This is a really nice painting Covers with Dragons tend to do much better than covers with other monsters...
Con: I (and maybe you) passed on this one for 8K a couple years ago. Clyde has had many pieces available on his site until just recently which has likely hurt his secondary market value.
My guess: This piece has the most variables of the current TSR paintings listed so far. If it keeps in line with previous Heritage Caldwell sales it could easily go below all of our (people who actually buy this stuff) expectations. Easleys "Magister" piece was maybe the best pure painting listed in the Dec auction and performed well despite going under the Park and Elmore. This one has the same potential I think. This should move Clyde back up in line with L.E. K.P. J.E. 2 of his Heavy Metal covers are also listed. It's unlikely (although possible) that they will detract from bidders on this one.
I agree! I am very much enjoying what is coming to bear on the Heritage market regarding TSR original illustration. It is really getting its due with the meteoric rise in values over a few short years ago.
I think this is one the finer Caldwell's that I have seen for sale. He is one of my least favorite artists at TSR. I don't care for his composition, particularly in his use of trite illustration techniques that keep his work from rising to the level of some of his contemporaries at TSR and Dragon Magazine. Some might disagree with me on this.
I always felt CC's work was a bit on the pricey side compared to other artists for quite sometime. I saw recent developments to be more of a correction rather than a depression of prices. The over-value might have something to do with the fact that he was asking far and away more for his work than his peers were. However, his peers are catching up on the secondary market place with re-sells.
This particular auction should fetch a nice gain for a Caldwell but not out of sight. Mostly because it is a highly recognizable image from an earlier Dragon. I am very curious to see how the Heavy Metal cover does and if there is a solid collectible market for that magazine specifically. I am guessing it does have a decent following. _________________
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:24 pm Post subject:
A lot of the Dragon/Dungeon covers were used "elsewhere". TSR recycled several images. I think all but 1 of my TSR paintings is on more than 1 product.
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject:
Rifter wrote:
2) Another Dragon cover is the Ned Dameron painting.
Pro: Another nice painting. It's a big piece as well measuring 30.5 x 21.5.
Con: Who is Ned Dameron?
My guess: This is a nice piece and will likley be won by a TSR collector that wants a quality Dragon cover for his/her home regardless of the artist. This could also fall into the hands of the bidding loser of the above mentioned painting...
I'd qualify this painting as the nicest piece by Ned for TSR that I have noticed.
Rifter wrote:
3) Beauvais Dragon Chessmen cover:
This one just went up recently so take a look at it!!
Elmore gave us Dragonlance... Parkinson gave us "Northwatch" and some other stuff... Beauvais gave us the Chessmen covers.
Pro: These are beloved paintings to a lot of fans. His Dragon covers are selling for a lot of $$$.
Con: His Dragon covers are selling for a lot of $$$.
My guess: This could possibly do the best business of all the TSR pieces that get listed. Many people (including myself) want to get a Beauvais and the recent sales of his works has been in the too high territory. I think the trend will continue. This piece could also get some interest beyond TSR specific collectors...
Den is a fantastic artist. He has quite a few Dragon covers that are memorable. Dragon 104 is my absolute favorite by Den. The chess oriented covers are indeed iconic.
Den's prices at the moment are being driven largely by the dealer who is handling his work. Personally, I think it is 'too optimistic'. But guys are hungry for the work and are coming up with the dough. So I might have to remain on the outside looking in. I think this auction will give us a good look at where the prices are. It is a quality piece that should give back some maximum results. Will it approach $10k? I don't think so. _________________
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject:
Quote:
I think this is one the finer Caldwell's that I have seen for sale. He is one of my least favorite artists at TSR. I don't care for his composition, particularly in his use of trite illustration techniques that keep his work from rising to the level of some of his contemporaries at TSR and Dragon Magazine. Some might disagree with me on this.
I would disagree Clyde is hit or miss but there's certainly a graphic design element in all of his work. His sig is a great logo imo. His Heavy Metal work shows where he was coming from before he landed at TSR. I can't think of anybody who did a better body of work regards to Dragon magazine... There are some great individual efforts and stuff like the chessmen series but I think that CC has a lot of great Dragon covers.
I will have something to say about the Heavy Metal stuff in a few weeks
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:57 pm Post subject:
Rifter wrote:
4) Dragon Magazine: Elmore- Good Catch!
I think this is the weakest of the Dragon covers offered. It's an Elmore Dragon cover though and that alone has some considerable value to many people.
Pro/Con is irrelevant with Larry... His recent Bloodstone piece fell far short of what I expected compared to the Dragonlance piece that sold last year. Of all the major TSR artists, I think that Elmore has the most nostalgia going for his paintings. This is reflected in the sales of his TSR work Vs his other work.
My guess: something stupid high or something amazingly low It's feast or famine with Larry Elmore. The same can be said about his paintings...
Which Dragon # does this image belong to?
Here is my opinion on the variations in prices and this theory can apply to many of the pieces we see exchanged on the open market.... There was definitely a large gap in prices between the Death of Sturm and the Bloodstone piece. I think the main reason is you are dealing with an iconic piece by Elmore, in the Death of Sturm, that is magical on several levels that made it appealing to fantasy art generalists and TSR/Dragonlance enthusiasts, all at once. The bloodstone piece is a classic Elmore sans the damsel/dragon. The landscape is a breathless Elmore from his high period at TSR. This alone pushed the painting to a very respectable finish, imho. Many less interesting Elmores will be doing well to crack the $2-3k range.
_________________________________ _________________
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:58 pm Post subject:
Rifter wrote:
5) "Axe me another one"... or... "This auctions Parkinson"
Pro: It's a Parkinson.
Con: It's an oddball painting. This is from the same period when he started doing really amazing work but alas, this isn't one of those...
My guess: Every auction from now on will have at least one marginal Parkinson that will sell for a good amount of $$$. I wonder what "Northwatch" or something of that caliber will do if it ever hits Heritage??
Is this the image? I can't locate it for sure in advance of them posting the image to the auction.
I think the Red Dragon we saw in December at Heritage is a fine barometer of the market ceiling for Parkinson at the moment. There is hardly a finer illustration by him to be found.
____________________________________ _________________
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject:
Rifter wrote:
I can't think of anybody who did a better body of work regards to Dragon magazine... There are some great individual efforts and stuff like the chessmen series but I think that CC has a lot of great Dragon covers.
I'd give the edge to Dean Morrissey over Den for this honor. I might even place Holloway's efforts ahead of CC with regard to Dragon Magazine, even though I think Clyde is the better draftsmen/colorist of the two. I just couldn't see Dragon being what it was without Holloway.
Edit: I accidentally omitted Daniel Horne in that list! I'd place him in second ahead of Den! _________________
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:10 pm Post subject:
Your Caldwell is my Holloway At least we both like Fred Fields
I can look for the Dragon # in a bit.
That is an iconic Parkinson (Great Red) for D&D enthusiasts but something like "Northwatch" will blow it out of the water if it ever hits Heritage... Many non D&D people would bid on that one.
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:13 pm Post subject:
Horne has some greats, "Best for Last" and "Romans" but I mean the whole thing... Caldwell has at least 6 really good Dragon covers that I can think of. Beavais does as well... Again, a matter of taste
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:37 pm Post subject:
Rifter wrote:
6) Brom- Amber Enchantress:
Brom had 2 pieces in the recent Heritage and they both sold pretty low. To be fair, that entire auction seemed deflated compared to last Decembers. Brom maybe facing the same trouble as Caldwell in that his work has been readily available on the secondary market for the past several years. That may be affecting his secondary values but it's also his greatest upside in that, of all the surviving TSR artists, Brom is still highly successful as a working artist today.
Pro: This is a Dark Sun and Brom is Dark Sun. This is much more (non latex wearing) female friendly than most of his other pieces and can be better explained to a wife when it arrives in the mail... It's a big painting
Con: The multi/split covers are cool (I own some) but they also aren't as cohesive as a single painting. These aren't wrap-around images so much as multiple paintings in one canvas. Not Broms best and facing an unknown long term secondary market value.
My guess: Brom has been under selling recently. Is this better than the Dragon piece that was available in the last Heritage? The market for Brom bleeds over into "genre" art collectors more-so than any of the other major TSR guys. I would take a flyer on this one as well as the Dameron and hope to win either on the cheap.
I would agree that Brom has definitely risen to the top of the heap of all the great artists at TSR since the company's demise. Many fantasy art collectors don't regard much of what was done at TSR as his finest pieces. I am OK with that in a big way, as I don't want any of what should be called his post TSR mature style. I take some classic Dark Sun any day of the week.
I am happy to report that I won the Arena of Thyatis piece by Brom at the last round of Heritage. i was particularly please with the ending price of a shallow $1800 (plus premium grrr). Arena of T, Dragon Crown's cover and Into the Fray are my favorite Broms and I'll tell you why (cause I can't help myself!). They are Dark Sun with action/theater. I can understand why some of his other Dark Sun and later works appeal to others, but they aren't as powerful to me (nor am I willing to pay that collector premium!). BTW, I missed purchasing Into the Fray by a very narrow margin after it was offered for sale. At $2500, Victor really wound up with a fine TSR Dark Sun image by Brom. Victor has an unbelievable collection of a broad spectrum of the finest fantasy artists. He has a particularly good eye for very fine TSR illustration that does not discriminate based on the stature of the illustrated book's reputation.
The image up for auction is the one below, right? I think it is a very nice piece that might do better than the Dragon did in the last go around. But I cannot give a logical reason why, just a hunch. I think it is one of his better wraps.
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject:
Rifter wrote:
Your Caldwell is my Holloway At least we both like Fred Fields
You hit the nail on the head! It is a matter of personal taste.
The best pieces of 'art' are always evident at auction. The fantasy art generalists teach us this lesson time and time again with the ending amounts. But we all have pieces by certain artists that call to the teenagers in us, back to the day that we stood at the magazine stand when these images were initially etched in our memory.
I like the prices of Fred Fields. That would explain the depth of my collection of work. I mean, I really think he is an excellent draftsman and I love his images. But put some good ole first edition TSR in front of me for the same price....
Thanks for chatting this stuff up with me. I love nothing more online than discussing TSR original art. Let's make a habit of this! _________________
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:30 am Post subject:
Rifter wrote:
Horne has some greats, "Best for Last" and "Romans" but I mean the whole thing... Caldwell has at least 6 really good Dragon covers that I can think of. Beavais does as well... Again, a matter of taste
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:51 am Post subject:
Now you should find that Elmore Dragon cover I can't find it myself but have been shown the Magazine by 2 different people in the past when I was asking about the same piece.
Here's the thing about all those "other" artists.
Caldwell has a huge body of TSR work. We can judge each painting against over 100 other similar paintings and we do that.
Horne, Morrissey, etc; We have very few pieces which were able to judge against. It's easy to find a lowly Elmore/Caldwell/Park/Easley because they did so many pieces. Those Horne paintings make up a good % of his TSR list. If you think he hasn't used anything "trite" in his technique I can list a long page of images on this thread that may change your mind
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Covers with Dragons tend to do much better than covers with other monsters...
Clyde is hit or miss but there's certainly a graphic design element in all of his work. His sig is a great logo imo. His Heavy Metal work shows where he was coming from before he landed at TSR. I can't think of anybody who did a better body of work regards to Dragon magazine... There are some great individual efforts and stuff like the chessmen series but I think that CC has a lot of great Dragon covers.
