Comic Con

Rifter · Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:32 am Post subject: Comic Con

I think most people here probably aren't in a good geographic position to attend. It's pretty cool though cause they have a lot of guys who worked at TSR (at least art wise) in attendance. The downside is that it's overcrowded (as everything is basically overcrowded in SoCal since about 1979 or something;) and you might find yourself in a mass of bodies. A decent # of decent looking women though (probably) compared to any game cons...
None of the guys are really obvious except for Brom so you could walk right past some of them unless you're specifically searching (and the sea of bodies doesn't sweep you down another aisle...). Brom is at Spectrum booth and his stuff looks tight as usual. He had some nice DS interiors for me Cool

Donato Giancola was there doing some painting and honestly (I love the guys stuff from like 1996-97) I think maybe he should get back to that 1996-97 style he had going Wink

It seems like he just paints a pretty woman and then surrounds her with a starry backround (or a foresty background if it isn't sci-fi). He changes up the poses of the women and he's a great technical painter! I just hope that his best days aren't already past... They had some other guys there - stephen martiniere I think his name is and Dave Seeley- but Martiniere is all digital (and then you get into the bullshit argument how some guy working on a computer could easilly reproduce a digital illustration in oils and of course there's no evidence ((and never will be)) to the contrary...)
Seeley's images are all just sort of "off" to me. I don't think he has his proportions right or something. Oh yeah, they also have Rebecca Guay there and she's good at her thing. None of those are TSR, yeah, cept for Brom and looking at his new book cover and his recent Conan cover he's the best of that group.
Den Beauvais is in artist alley and he's a cool guy!
Tom Baxa is in artist alley and a really good guy and a friend. He's pimping the CCG's while Den is sort of everywhere with his originals (card art, some comps, some experimental looking work) Den has a really broad spectrum of fantasy work compared to the rest of the guys I can think of. He mentioned some crazy # of Guardians cards he illustrated and Baxa must have done a few hundred MTG-Warcraft as well. I wonder how much they get paid for those things? Nobody will tell me Crying or Very sad

Todd Lockwood is there but I didn't find him Crying or Very sad

Good thing as I was broke before I made it past the B row in art alley.
Other guys were there too. I think lots more than I know about. When I look at all the people who did any sort of TSR illustrations the # is pretty freaking huge! Then when you visit some of these guys and they pull out boxes and portfolios full of stuff I wonder how much art was done for TSR? It's in the tens of thousands. Maybe (probably) the low tens of thousands but it's pretty crazy I bet Wink

scribe · Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Comic Con

Rifter · Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:00 pm Post subject:

I know the original MTG artists got paid. They got royalties and when it took off they made several hundred thousand dollars. I also believe that they might have gotten WOTC stock options. Actually I'm pretty sure of it. When WOTC got really corporate they changed the contracts and all the original artists bailed.
From talking to the guys doing the art now they get really disapointed when they aren't being used for a set. It at least pays a living...
Guardians was Parkinsons own game unless I'm mistaken? So if he paid himself and Den shockingly little then they must have known that going in Wink

I dunno... I think they make decent money (at least for MTG and Warcraft) considering the images are going on playing cards. The secondary market for those illustrations is the suxxors for the most part though.

scribe · Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:55 am Post subject:

For situations like TSR, some guys were on staff under salary. Everything they made became the property of the company. I don't think anyone in illustration has ever made 6 figures on anything. In fact, I'd bet some had to work a few years to cover that sort of spread.
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Rifter · Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:59 am Post subject:

Talking with some of the guys that weren't on TSR staff they mentioned moving as being the major downside of being on staff. I dunno how true that is. The freelance pay was pretty good (imo) from what I've been told vs the times. All I have to go on though is what the artists will tell me. Then, talking with JF and the $$$ she paid for originals, the artists back then made $$$ off of the work and not the resale value of the art.

With WOTC, they could not afford to pay up front for those illustrations. The artists got some sort of royalty stake in the original card images. The game exploded and of course there was a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th... editions all in a short time with numerous foriegn printings. Those guys got paid... Anyone that was with WOTC in any capacity from the outset got PAID.
Now it's a one time payment and then they have ownership. I think it's a good amount. This is something I could be wrong about though. I get the vibe (that it's a good gig) from seeing how the artists respond when they aren't in a set or whatever. Maybe WOTC just pays better than the other companies. Maybe they (artists) just worry about getting less exposure.

scribe · Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject:

I have heard of some freelance ink drawings paying <$100 and original paintings paying <$500. You would think that 30 years after the beginning of gaming art that pay would improve, but the emergence of quick rendering in digital format has depressed any gains for those working in traditional media.
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Rifter · Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:47 am Post subject:

Rifter · Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:03 am Post subject:

The Gnomon Workshop (an art school) had a bunch of artists doing quick sketches for some web sketch site. I was able to catch Tom Baxa doing one. I think the only TSR guy who did it. The gal before him did a fine pencil rendering and I wish I got some pics of hers.
This took Tom about 20 minutes or so. Ink marker (sharpie!) on paper.

It's sort of a reality check when you watch these guys go and you see how good they really are...

Rifter · Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:13 am Post subject:

Here's the Stout "Peace". It has a really really tiny ass price sticker on it and I couldn't see how much. My guess is 25-50K seeing how he prices stuff... I would have asked him but to engage in conversation with William Stout is not to love William Stout Wink

This is an iconic piece nonetheless.

Rifter · Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:47 am Post subject:

As said before, Brom brought me a small pile of Dark Sun interiors. I really enjoy DS cause it has the D&D feel along with a sort of Heavy Metal quality to it as well. Were coordinating a studio visit in Seattle hopefully soon!