Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Last Visit: 21 Sep 2010 Posts: 802 Location: Rochester, NY
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject:
Oh . . . I don't know if it's that bad. Prices will jump up and down and there will be new collector's in the years ahead.
You'll see . . .
People jump into collecting stuff and not all of them had to have been around at the time a game was released.
The truth is that "old" and "rare" stuff will always be old and rare and twenty years will only add to this.
In fifty years? Many of us will have passed on, but I bet D&D will be around. Younger collectors will seek out the "first" items. That is why people collect to begin with. Hell, in most collectible/antiquity fields, the age has long since come and gone when anyone is left alive to remember the origin of the item! _________________ "Ah, Blackadder. Started talking to yourself, I see."
"Yes . . . it's the only way I can be assured of intelligent conversation."
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Last Visit: 22 Mar 2020 Posts: 4574 Location: In the House of the Cosmic Frog
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Younger collectors will seek out the "first" items.
Of course, but what arguments are being made now to suggest to young people that rpg collecting can be enjoyable and important? Once the crowd who played D&D or Cthulhu or MERP disappears there simply won't be any interest. No one will care. Somebody has got to make the sales pitch to get people involved. _________________ "This is cool."
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject:
gyg wrote:
Realistically there are far better ways of investing your money than this hobby.
Sorry to heavily paraphrase your quotation. I hope you don't mind if I lift this out of your thoughts. But I think it is safe to say, the steady growth this hobby has witnessed since the 80's has been steady and significant AND in a lot of cases has equaled or outperformed many different types of investment strategies. There is not quite enough evidence just yet that they market is going to be depressed for these collectibles. Hindsight will tell a clearer picture.
Personally, I think there will be a slight correction in the market for these collectibles we concern ourselves with on a site like this. I also firmly believe we have at least another 30 years of growth ahead as incomes recover and continue to grow. Once our kids reach college and move beyond, you should see a sharp spike in prices for these collectibles as disposable incomes will reach their max.
While the pool of bidders seems like a select 5-6 people at any given time, this has always turned over to new faces who are willing to spend just a little bit more than their predecessors. I predict the same going forward as it has been proven the case again and again without a single exception. _________________
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Last Visit: 22 Mar 2020 Posts: 4574 Location: In the House of the Cosmic Frog
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject:
I'm glad he picked one up. I don't know the buyer, but his id has been around D&D auctions for some time. He must be thrilled! _________________ "This is cool."
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Last Visit: 30 Sep 2010 Posts: 6 Location: UK
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject:
Hi,
without wishing to point out the obvious - the world is currently in economic turmoil.
I would be surprised if many people are paying high-end money for luxury items, not just rpgs.
If someone sees a "bargain" - then they might splash out on it, but most people are sitting on their money (unless you're in Iceland of course), in case they need it in the future.
I also think the situation is noticeably worse this month over last.
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Last Visit: 22 Mar 2020 Posts: 4574 Location: In the House of the Cosmic Frog
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject:
The Fazzlewood that went off last night did pretty well at $1625.
So why did Troll & Toad's Fazzlewood get no bids? Either the winning bidder or the second place bidder could have saved $400. _________________ "This is cool."
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject:
As I recall, isn't the seller of the higher auction result someone who worked in the printing and/or the original distribution of Fazzlewood? Wasn't there a question of the authenticity of Fazzlewoods in today's collectible market? _________________
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Last Visit: 30 Aug 2023 Posts: 891 Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject:
scribe wrote:
As I recall, isn't the seller of the higher auction result someone who worked in the printing and/or the original distribution of Fazzlewood? Wasn't there a question of the authenticity of Fazzlewoods in today's collectible market?
I believe the answer to both is yes. However, the Troll & Toad copies of Fazzlewood came from this seller also.
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Last Visit: 22 Mar 2020 Posts: 4574 Location: In the House of the Cosmic Frog
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject:
I've got two copies of Fazzle. One I got from Aaron when I first started collecting, the other from ebay in '06. They are exactly the same under the microscope. Are the ones being offered now differ in some quality from the older ones? _________________ "This is cool."
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Last Visit: 30 Aug 2023 Posts: 891 Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject:
tfm wrote:
Are the ones being offered now differ in some quality from the older ones?
I don't think I have actually seen any proof that the "new" ones are different from the old ones. As far as I know all the previous buyers suggest that they are authentic. But I think simply based on the fact that someone has shown up with 10 or so mint copies of the ultra rare, the question of authenticity is about.
Does anyone have a current count on how many this seller has sold?
Greetings!
Just a quick question to enquire when and where you picked up these magazines; in general and in particular for the Alien Star 'zines.
From the high-res images, for which thanks, it would appear that there are unofficial & modern reprints present as the vertical banding in the solid black areas is somewhat indicative of having been produced by modern inkjet or a low-end laser printer vs. the originals which are more-or-less solid black per http://www.travellerbibliography.org/alienstar/as6.jpg
Could you please confirm whether some/all of the other 'zines have a similar feature, as appears to be the case for a few at least.
Many thanks & Best wishes.
reply:
Quote:
Hello! I got these magazines years ago from an online seller but to be honest I don't remember the exact date or who. Not sure if it was an online store or eBay I got them since its been quite awhile ago. They are all in super good condition which I guess might indicate they are reprints. I've been out of touch on Traveller stuff so checking that site sure seems to imply these are reprints and not originals based on the example pics. Wish I could give you a difinite answer but at this point after checking that site I'd say the chances are good these are reprints. Hope that helps.
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Last Visit: 22 Mar 2020 Posts: 4574 Location: In the House of the Cosmic Frog
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:27 am Post subject:
Not at all. Looks like 60/40, but that's just looking at the picture and not having it in-hand. I've been trying to finish out my Alien Stars for awhile.
There have been a lot of Traveller items out there that may or may not be originals, and they do get good prices, and not just from me. Once I receive the lot and have a chance to look through it carefully, then I can decide whether or not to press the seller. There is always the possibility with these materials that the people who released them originally re-released them again, in which case they're not 'fakes' at all. Jordison has been doing that with Fact & Fantasy stuff for years, but at least he puts a little copyright note in pen on the maps to tell them apart. Or like the POTVQ that looked suspicious to me but seemed legit after your careful argument (your writing is so much clearer when your mad; I needle my students, too, to get better results). Quite different from the Gamelords 'pinks' running around out there. _________________ "This is cool."
Joined: 11 Aug 2007 Last Visit: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 102
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:44 am Post subject:
Still no idea who the underbidder was on that lot and certainly not too impressed that the seller declined to add at least an advisory note to the auction description. (eBay didn't want to know at all, of course).
Thanks to Brette for re-flagging on those, regardless.
Anyhow;
tfm wrote:
Not at all. Looks like 60/40, but that's just looking at the picture and not having it in-hand. I've been trying to finish out my Alien Stars for awhile.
Ah; sad to say those are definitely fakes. I was stung for $40-60 for a set of those several years back as I was also missing a couple of issues and just a tad too presumptuous as to the likelihood of genuine reprints given the existence of those for several of the other better-known UK 'zines. The auction picture wasn't anything like as good as the current one, however, and didn't show up the banding which is obvious when holding a copy in ones hands.
tfm wrote:
There have been a lot of Traveller items out there that may or may not be originals, and they do get good prices, and not just from me. Once I receive the lot and have a chance to look through it carefully, then I can decide whether or not to press the seller. There is always the possibility with these materials that the people who released them originally re-released them again, in which case they're not 'fakes' at all.
Certainly possible with the more recent material, but the presence alongside that of early 80s UK 'zines in exactly the same format and with similar "issues" on production is just a tad fishy.
tfm wrote:
Jordison has been doing that with Fact & Fantasy stuff for years, but at least he puts a little copyright note in pen on the maps to tell them apart. Or like the POTVQ that looked suspicious to me but seemed legit after your careful argument (your writing is so much clearer when your mad; I needle my students, too, to get better results). Quite different from the Gamelords 'pinks' running around out there.
Heh, heh... that wasn't particularly "mad"; more a straight-up offer to pay back what you paid since I was sure it was a good 'un given the background and various indicators, and happy enough to put my money where my mouth was.
Jordison vs. those Gamelords fakes is a good comparison for those Traveller 'zines. Fairly strong feeling that they fall into the latter category as I couldn't find any indication of "official reprint" on the Alien Stars, at least.
(aside: Yes, there are still a few genuine "original" items in that batch, but $325 is a bit of a stretch for "interesting content" vs. "presumed original $ value" on the others, IMHO).
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Last Visit: 22 Mar 2020 Posts: 4574 Location: In the House of the Cosmic Frog
Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject:
Well, David, you got that one right on. Most of those were reprints. He refunded my money, of course. I kept the stuff that was genuine and sent the rest back. You should being seeing them again soon, but listed as reprints.
It should be interesting to watch what declared reprints go for. _________________ "This is cool."
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Last Visit: 30 Aug 2023 Posts: 891 Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject:
While we are on the subject of fanzines. Suppose someone tracked down the editor/publisher of a fanzine and was given permission to make reprints.
Any thoughts on other copyright issues that may be involved?
I think changing the media such as paper -> PDF would cause a problem but how about strictly reprints. Some of the fanzines did reprints back then so would doing another print now be okay?
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