Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Last Visit: 20 May 2011 Posts: 58
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: Dragon Magazine Archive... is this what happened?
I've run across a copy of the Dragon Magazine Archive, and was very surprised to see that it's become quite the little collectible. I checked out this story on Wikipedia and wondered if any of you know if this is true. It certainly seems plausible enough...
"In 1999 a compilation of the first 250 issues was released in PDF format with a special viewer including an article and keyword search in CD-ROM format. Also included were the 7 issues of The Strategic Review. This compilation is known as the software title Dragon Magazine Archive. Because of a conflict regarding the reprint rights for the Knights of the Dinner Table comic strips printed in Dragon for many years, the Dragon Magazine Archive is out of print and very hard to find."
I'd love to know the scoop from the guys what know...
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Last Visit: 30 Aug 2023 Posts: 891 Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:12 am Post subject:
I think that bit of info is actually false. Also, although collectible and OOP, I wouldn't call it "very hard to find". A good illustration of the problem with Wiki though.
There were definitely copyright issues with the Dragon Magazine Archive but they were not restricted to Knights of the Dinner Table. I believe the issue with Kenzer was resolved by allowing him to "remake" all of the old school adventures for Hackmaster. I have also heard that there was a class action lawsuit/settlement with the other rights holders for a large sum of money. I think this precedent is also why we haven't seen magazine compilations from other companies.
GW created a White Dwarf compilation but then realized the copyright problems so never released it.
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:27 am Post subject:
You'd think they could just omit the pages that had problems. I doubt many (if any) people bought the Dragon archive for KoDT ...
What happened with the White Dwarf compilation is another story. They pulled out all the product placement and advertisements and after that they were left with only 12 pages of material
Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Last Visit: 20 May 2011 Posts: 58
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject:
Rifter wrote:
You'd think they could just omit the pages that had problems. I doubt many (if any) people bought the Dragon archive for KoDT ...
What happened with the White Dwarf compilation is another story. They pulled out all the product placement and advertisements and after that they were left with only 12 pages of material
Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Last Visit: 20 May 2011 Posts: 58
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject:
Mars wrote:
I think that bit of info is actually false. Also, although collectible and OOP, I wouldn't call it "very hard to find". A good illustration of the problem with Wiki though.
There were definitely copyright issues with the Dragon Magazine Archive but they were not restricted to Knights of the Dinner Table... I have also heard that there was a class action lawsuit/settlement with the other rights holders for a large sum of money. I think this precedent is also why we haven't seen magazine compilations from other companies.
It does stand to reason that multiple rights holders would be want to get their money, that's one of the things in the Wiki article that gave me pause. It seemed a bit fanciful that one company, and not several, would turn out to be a problem.
Also, I suppose the "very" hard to find part is debatable. If you're willing to go to Amazon and pay $129 USD on the low end, you can get one. And they pop up on eBay, too, as I can see from the very fine research you guys have done. In fact, the one I've got will probably make it there sooner rather than later.
Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Last Visit: 20 May 2011 Posts: 58
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject:
Was the collector community upset by the release of the Archive? I know that there are always people that will want the actual object, but is there any sense that having very professionally done digital versions out there has suppressed the value?
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Last Visit: 30 Aug 2023 Posts: 891 Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject:
I think the community in general was happy with the Archive. It made a lot of the early issues available to people for a reasonable price.
In terms of how it has effected values, I would guess that it probably hasn't changed the value/collectibility of the high valued/rare items such as Strategic Review or Dragon #1 but maybe has made the common items such as Dragon #50-250 a tougher sell.
If I remember correctly, the copyright issue was not with the advertisers but rather with the independent contributors of articles/fiction/etc. I don't think the original TSR agreement included the rights to change mediums from print to electronic - or possibly to reprint the items after the initial print run. In any case, the number of independent contributors was very large. I think the number that I heard floated around was that this added half a million dollars to the project.
In the case of the White Dwarf compilation, GW created the product but decided not to pay the huge sum of money that it would cost to buy the digital rights from the independent contributors so it was never offered for sale by GW. The magazines do include all of the advertisements (the ads are one of my favourite parts of the magazines - great source for finding old small press RPG stuff). The product was completed and an initial run of DVDs was produced so you can still find them out there from time to time. I believe one UK reseller purchased copies from the source that created the DVDs and while selling them on Ebay, was sent a cease and desist letter from GW.
Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Last Visit: 20 May 2011 Posts: 58
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject:
Dang... half a million added to the cost. Ouch.
I think with an original MSRP of $39.99 (at least that's what I saw somewhere) that extra cost would have been a killer. And honestly, I'm surprised that the legal department didn't warn them...
In any case, it is a tremendously cool product. And a great value even at "collectible rates."
I'd love to see the GW Archive sometime. Guess I'll have to keep a lookout.
Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Last Visit: 20 May 2011 Posts: 58
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:43 am Post subject:
Mars wrote:
I found that price listed in a couple of places but I don't think it is accurate. I found a couple more reliable places that say the MSRP was $59.99.
I could buy that...
... still I feel like an item w/ so much stuff on it today would run you $99.99 retail. Not really basing that on pesky "facts," just a feeling I've got.
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Last Visit: 30 Aug 2023 Posts: 891 Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:59 am Post subject:
It was $100+ up here in Canada because our dollar was pretty low back then. Its also interesting too that like most software, once it was a bit older, ended up in the bargain bin for cheap - I know a few people who decided to pick it up then too.
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Last Visit: 22 Mar 2020 Posts: 4574 Location: In the House of the Cosmic Frog
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:05 am Post subject:
Ebay is a throw of the dice as far as selling goes. It's a buyer's market right now. If you don't need to sell anything I'd wait or ask Aaron at Nobleknight what he would give you. I've done pretty well going that route. _________________ "This is cool."
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Last Visit: 30 Aug 2023 Posts: 891 Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:26 pm Post subject:
If you know roughly what kind of prices you want for the items, I would list them in the various online forums (such as here). Ebay will take a good chunk if you go that route.
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Guess I'll have to keep a lookout.
